Ironman Champion Chris “Macca” McCormack!

Arguably the best triathlete ever in being the only male to claim world champion status at the ITU and Ironman levels, Chris McCormack sat down with TriMax Fitness just days after his impressive 4th place finish in Kona this year.  Chris was extremely gracious with his time and insight as he discusses the value of psychology in competitive racing against his peers as well as his thoughts on racing against Andy Potts, Craig Alexander and Eneko Llanos.  Read more below!

You have an unprecedented reputation for talking smack before, during and after races, what is the best smack you’ve jawed at someone during a race and how did they respond? 
Psychology is a major weapon for athletes. I studied a bit of psychology going through college and have always been fascinated by it. The funny thing is when you use psychology as a tool to give you an advantage, especially in sport, you get labeled cocky or arrogant or talking smack. It is the most neglected form of training by athletes and is thus for many people their biggest point of weakness. I think you can create doubt, inhibition or fear into your competitor and this can give you an edge. Being open about your goals and putting them out to the universe is a positive thing. I think smack talk is different to what I do. I never attack or belittle one of my competitors. I simply state my intentions, how I am going to do it, and my expectations of myself. If my competitors or the press find this upsetting then it has worked. You can’t win a race by simply stating you’re going to. I obviously train very hard to do it, and expect a lot from myself. I have never individually targeted an athlete with pre race talk. I simply state the facts as I see them and as I expect them to happen. This builds my confidence, creates doubt in my competitors and makes the entire race interesting. I think it adds flavor to the event as well. It is amazing how this “vanilla athlete” approach is so embraced these days, yet the greatest performers or competitors are the ones who are outwardly confident and state that fact. They understand the power of the mind and the destructive nature of your own self doubts.  I never say anything to anybody during races. If you are talking during events you are trying to get people to do things that you want them to do. Most of the time this is positive talk. I did yell once at one of my idols Jurgen Zach. It was in the 2002 Ironman in Hawaii and we were off the front on the bike. I felt the pace was slowing down on the bike and we had 5 minutes lead on the front group. I was leading and decided to slow down and allow Jurgen to pass me. Jurgen was a super star cyclist and had a very solid ego which I liked. As he went passed me I yelled at him "Is that what you call a Zach attack? I have watched you on TV for 10 years and was expecting more than that." He looked at me in disbelief and then immediately pushed the pace trying to drop me. It worked to perfection as we opened up an extra 2 minutes on the group as Jurgen tried to show just how strong he was. It was super strong but I was hoping to get him to do that. I made him angry because I attacked his ego, and he immediately pushed the pace very hard on the bike trying to drop myself and Thomas Hellriegel. Some may call this smack talk or arrogance. The way I see it, it is racing and trying to ensure the entire rhythm of the race is controlled by you, without your competitors even realizing it.

OK, other side of the coin.  What’s the best line someone’s thrown at you during a race and how did you respond? 
Sorry never really had one thrown at me--none that I can think of anyway. Different people race with different emotions. Crowie for example is a very angry racer and yells and screams at athletes during the event. Eneko Llanos for example is very quiet and doesn’t say a word. His facial expressions never change. Different athletes are motivated or pull their competitive drive from different arenas. For me I just love to suffer and love competition and really try to outsmart my competitors. I enjoy beating athletes who I really should not have, because they self destructed because of something that I may have forced them to do. I get more satisfaction out of racing like this than just beating them up because you’re faster. You get much more satisfaction out of racing athletes at their prime in events you should not win, and then you out smart them to ultimately win. The Europeans are incredible racers at home. Winning races in Europe are near impossible to win especially for non European guys. I always love going over there and taking these guys on at home. It is always tough to beat an athlete at home.

Just about every top pro will tell you that they train anywhere from 20-30 hrs per week.  But what most age groupers don’t usually realize is that this time isn’t spent just blindly riding or running for a given period of time—intervals and intensity are a major part of this training.  To this end, what percentage of your training time is devoted to effort above 85% of your maximum effort? 
This is a difficult question to answer for three primary reasons. First, it depends on what time of year we are looking at. Early season in Australia I am really just ticking over and focused specifically on technique and fitness work and my overall intensity stuff is pretty limited. As the racing season gets closer this plan changes. So time of year is dependent upon just what percentage of work is above this threshold.

Secondly, the event I am building towards. The distance is very much dependent upon the intensities I am doing. Ironman work is very strength specific for me and my time above this threshold is not as long as for events of shorter distances.

Thirdly, I tend to use races as key training sessions and use these as sub maximal efforts. If you take a snap shot of a period of my training then I might be a racing phase where I have a lot of races and intensities above this threshold. May’s training program tends to evolve as the season goes on. We obviously set a foundation or a basic structure tram, but the week to week volumes and intensities may change depending upon travel, recovery and focus. A basic answer to this would be that I at least do 1 session per week in each discipline above this threshold. Sometimes it is more, but more than certainly it is never less.

Along this same vein, what is the most painful workout you perform on a regular or semi regular basis and how do you measure success in doing it? 
Track sessions in running. I tend to hit the track once a week and they tend to mostly be painful. They are tough mentally as well as being physically demanding many times. I also find key motor pacing sessions can be quite painful that we do behind the motorbike. Measuring success in these sessions is often done over a longer period of time. You don’t assess success on a single session. Success will come from stringing many of these key sessions along over numerous weeks. We often modify the sessions to see the progression so there is a very clear comparison over the weeks. You can see your progression or lack of it over a period of 4-7 weeks and you make those micro adjustments to the sessions to build through to the point you aim to be at.

If you could race against any other triathlete at any time who would it be, what race would it be and why?
I would love to race Andy Potts at my prime at Escape from Alcatraz. I think Andy is really, really good on this course and this was an event that I very much enjoyed and felt I owned when I was doing my short course racing.  I won the race 4 times and finished 2nd twice in my 6 attempts at the course. The course really suited me, and I think it suits Andy as well. I would love to have that race with both of us at our prime. I think this is the most important non drafting short course race in the World. All the short course guys in the world prepare for this race and everyone wants this event in their resume. It was like that when I was racing and is still that way. Andy is exceptional over this course and I enjoy watching him. I am definitely a fan of Andy and what he does. He is great. Every short course athlete has raced in Alcatraz so any athlete who disputes this races importance is doing so simply because they never performed well here. It is the only race that truly tests an athlete’s ability over the 3 disciplines, as each discipline takes about the same time. It is the truest short course test there is with the most rounded guy winning. Andy has done it better than anyone these last few years, and they have all come to take it off him.

I would also love to race Luc Van Lierde at his best over the Quelle Challenge Roth course. He broke the world record on that course back in 1997 and I was there watching him do it as a fan. I since went on to race that event 5 times and win the race 4 times. I just missed his world record a couple of times and would love to have had him in the race to see just how far I could push myself with a guy like that in the event doing what he does. As far as I am concerned the biggest races in the World are Roth, Frankfurt and Hawaii. When Luc was racing, Frankfurt didn’t exist and Roth was the biggest event. Everyone came to win these titles and they still do. It is important to hold these events in your resume and be successful at them. If you are a real fan of the history of this sport like I am, you would know the importance of these events in the sports history and the remarkable performances that were put in here. These races are like our tennis grand slams. Many people only know Hawaii and this is sad for the sport I think. Some of the greatest triathlon performances in our sports history were done at these events. Go back and watch Lothar Leder break 8 hours for the first time in 1996. Also, check out the war that the boys had in 1997 on the Roth course. Incredible. Ironwar, the greatest race of all I think was Luc versus Jurgen when the world record tumbled. Incredible. Luc and I are very similar athletes so I would enjoy racing him. I never got to do that when he was at his prime and even though we have raced a lot, I know just how good he was and respect him immensely. He is one of my idols.

I saw an interview you had done with Peter Reid where you briefly mentioned a past history with weight training.  In the interview, you noted that your body reacted very aggressively to weight training by putting on more mass quite quickly.  What exactly was this weight training regimen and how did it impact your racing?
Ever since I first started being really competitive and was part of the Australian Institute of Sport program in the late 80's and early 90's, these guys have been trying to get me to do weights. In the beginning it was fine and we used to follow a basic weight program as part of my training as a runner. As I got into my 20's and was doing triathlon and my body was finding its real strength and it finalized its development, I found weights very detrimental to my overall performance. I had a tendency to bulk up quite quickly, and found much more benefit out of doing strength specific workouts that were in line with what I do. I understand weights can be a beneficial addition to a program, but as an endurance athlete I find in my case their importance is much less.

As Australian athletes we tended to race 10 months of the year, as we finished with the European or US season we would return to Australia and commence the Australian season. Our timeline to put volume and strength workouts in were intertwined with a domestic racing season. I think this is why the Australian athletes are so powerful within the sport of triathlon. Our foundation for success is derived from a huge racing pool then the ability to use racing within the confines of a base and strength program to ultimate build the engine. Over the early years I found the benefits I got out of weight work in the gym a couple of times a week was not worth it. I derived much more benefit from these strength specific workouts within the sports I did. I also didn’t bulk up like I had a tendency to do from the gym. I felt tight and restricted doing gym work and ultimately with time moved away from the gym with very positive results. I gain much more benefit out of yoga and core work than anything I can build in the gym, and with time my training moved in this direction. I have not been in a weight room since 1996 and strength is something I have never lacked. I have never been injured and despite all the experts telling me I could gain more strength and improve my performances by going back into the gym, I strongly disagree. Each athlete has individualized strengths and weaknesses. Being of Polynesian heritage, I have very thick tendons and joints. I really think this gives me my weight (my race weight is 177 pounds). I think this is primarily because my body is probably built to be 200 pounds or more, but the endurance training over the years has kept my weight down. Once I hit the gym, I find my body really wants to  blow out and move towards this kind of weight. I think the foundation of my skeleton could hold this and which is why strength/power has never been an issue for me. For me keeping my weight low is the hardest thing. The move across to Ironman put huge weight on me as I increased my strength work and added the miles. I see in my off season I add 20 pounds to my frame in 3 weeks. I am just a bigger guy who has kept his weight low enough to stay competitive within this sport. Like Jurgen Zack, Sindballe, Lothar Leder, Pauli Kuiri etc, as bigger guys this race does not suit us, but take us anywhere else in the world with the same athletes and the results would be very different. 

Several months back we ran an interview with Brian MacKenzie of CrossFit Endurance (interview link here).  CrossFit Endurance is a training protocol that places very high value on extremely intense efforts performed in short intervals and features a protocol that rarely has its athletes training for more than 90 minutes at a time—albeit at a time trial pace effort.  Such efforts are then blended with both bodyweight weight training as well as Olympic lifting among other protocols.  When asked how he would train you Brian had this to say…

If Chris McCormack came to you and said "I want to win Kona this year (again)" how would you train him?
I’d tell him I can’t train him. An athlete like that is such a specialist that it would take me 2-3 years just to get him moving correctly enough to handle what I wanted to do to him. If I had 2-3 years and we could change his nutrition, and put some size and strength on him, all the while he still could move efficiently, then I would never let him do an unnecessary mile or minute of training again. Unfortunately, he probably wouldn’t be able to wrap his head around that, and have a break down, and secretly go out and swim/bike/run real long. I can’t give you his code for training because they are all different, but I can tell you he would not only not survive with me but would not win Kona if I only had a year.

With so much experience at every distance in the sport of triathlon, what is your point of view on how high intensity training, weight training and total body strength come into play at the various distances?
I think I answered that question above. This being said, different coaches and experts have different training philosophies from research or study they have done. Everybody is trying to find the secret formula that nobody else has, that will make stars. In my 20 years in this sport, and being associated with some of the world’s greatest swimmers, bikers and runners in my time, the one thing I can tell you is, no hard work, no results. It is that simple. Now define hard work. This is where different people will have their differing opinions and secret sessions or ideas that will ultimately build champions. I have raced and won triathlon events from the old F1 races in Australia (these were flat out for 20 minutes) all the way up through to Ironman. Draft legal World Cup events, to non drafting strength races. Different races and athletes demand different types and styles of training. High intensity training is very important but for different reasons. Some people need to use this to work on specific weaknesses or build their engine. I for example, use high intensity workouts to strip my weight down and add to lean muscle mass. The balance within our sport is quite difficult to balance but I do often feel that the top triathletes simply do not race enough and they tend to over plan things. This is a physical sport and often trying to quantify things with all these new gadgets and training principles confuses many athletes and they often spend time doing a series of solid exercises that do great things for everything but their triathlon racing. You can’t supplement training for racing. How many times have you seen that amazing athlete who trains the house down but can never put that performance together in a race? Is this the coach’s fault? I think coaches have a tendency to kill the initiative of an athlete in many situations and without a sound communication platform and allowing their athletes to develop a racing instinct that carries across into their training; you will ultimately destroy the athlete’s potential. If an athlete can be truly honest with themselves and then communicate that across to their coaches or advisors, you can get a great synergy. I have drifted off the question a little. The basic answer is, everyone is specific, and no coach has the answer. It is the relationship between coach and athlete that is important and not being over coached. The coach has to let go of their ego a little and many coaches don’t do that. These types of sessions have their place for different athletes and can build champions, but they are not for everyone.

Part 2 Of Our Interview With Ironman Champion Chris “Macca” McCormack...

I think your racing nutrition is based on Cliff Bloks or gels, salt tablets, Gatorade, Cola and water (correct?)  What about your non racing nutrition?  Do you follow a certain plan (Paleo, Zone) or do you have another nutrition protocol and what is it?
I really follow no specific diet plan. I try to live by the 90-10 principle that I made up. If I eat well 90 percent of the time I can afford myself some junk food. I eat very well and have a pretty balanced diet. I don’t have an American palate which tends to be a very sweet tooth. I don’t have a sweet tooth at all and tend to eat pretty well. I feel no guilt with anything I eat and think that guilt surrounding diet is more detrimental than the food itself

How much do your personal and not so private rivalries with some of the top triathletes in the world what drive you to be the best?
Very much I guess. You don’t get on with everybody that is just basic human nature, and there are a couple of people on the circuit that I clash with. I don’t really give them much thought but I will be honest that when I am racing them I do make sure that I try my absolute hardest to beat them. I guess I do get motivation out of that but to be honest it is not my driving force.

I know you’ve spent time learning bike fitting and talked about your plans after you leave racing triathlon.  How many more years do you see yourself competing and what will be your post racing goals in terms of staying connected to the sport?
I intend racing for 4-5 more years. My sponsors are committed to me for this period of time and I think that I can remain competitive for this period quite comfortably. I don’t like to ever put a retirement date on my career, but as I move towards this period, my family will be the driving factor around my racing. I have always loved triathlon and have been a fan of this sport for years. I will be a fan first forever. I think more than anyone I really do embrace the history and the development of this sport as well as racing it. My key sponsors are very keen to keep me involved within their framework of triathlon and its disciplines. I can see myself working for Under Armour as they are a very exciting company, a company I am committed to and believe in and are as driven and as focused as I am. I can assure you I will still be involved in some capacity with the sport of triathlon. I love it.

Over the past several years, you’ve taken big steps to establish the Macca Foundation.  What have been the most impactful experiences you’ve had in working with this initiative?
I lost my mother to cancer right before the Sydney Olympics. My entire world was torn apart and I never knew what I was going to do with myself. I was the world champion triathlete and current world #11 athlete but it all just seemed unimportant to me after her death. I really started to question what I was doing with my life and what satisfaction I was deriving from competing. It just seemed so selfish and so self serving. I decided if I could ever establish a platform that would enable me to help others I would. We formed the Macca Foundation that aligns with two key foundations, The CAF and The Talbert Family Foundation. Last year we raised more than $200,000 dollars for a very close friend of mine who was suffering from cancer. This enabled him to focus on getting well and not worry about the day to day living stresses that were plaguing him. The money we raise is a no questions asked donation to the family to do with what they like. Nothing in my life has felt so satisfying and giving back to me is a social responsibility that everybody should feel a connection to. It is the key human element, the gift of giving and helping. It feels great and the Macca Foundation is just a small program that helps.

Alright last one…Imagine on any of your daughters’ (Chris has three daughters Emma, Tahlia and Sienna) 16th birthday one (or all!) say they want to follow in your footsteps and become professional triathletes, how will you respond and if you advocate them doing so, what will be your most important things for them to do in becoming one?
I would be very supportive of any decision my children make. I grew up in a family that was all about chasing your dreams and believing in yourself. We were never inhibited in any dream or desire we had and forever encouraged. I instill this same mindset with my children. I would be very supportive of their decision to follow this sport. It is very satisfying on a personal level and the discipline is great within our sport. I would tell them to be true to themselves, keep an open mind and never stop believing in themselves. I would also tell them to give it 100 percent. Don’t do it half heartedly. They need to be committed if they want to go pro.

Chris McCormack
Born: Sydney, Australia; April 4, 1974 
Age: 35
First Triathlon: 1992 Wollongong in Australia - Olympic Distance
Turned Pro: 1996 - Finished College and turned pro - This being said I raced pro races the minute I was out of juniors in 1994.
Family: Wife, Emma Jane; Daugters, Tahlia (6) and Sienna (3).
Lives: Los Angeles, CA and Sydney, Australia - More in Sydney now with Tahlia in school
Career at a glance:

Goodwill Games 2001 - Best short course race of my career. Best 30 athletes in the World, draft legal and I had an amazing day dropping the field on the bike and then running to the title. We were all so focused after I Iost the title in New York to Simon Lessing after we were sent off course. The Goodwill Games at the time were the biggest paying race in our sport and the biggest televised race outside the Olympics. It was in Australia, so it was huge. An awesome day for me.

ITU Triathlon World Championships - 1st Place 1998 - I still believe the toughest title to win in our sport is the ITU World Championships. The talent pool is just so deep and your margin of error is so small. It is a draft legal competition and you have to be on in swim, bike and run to pull it off. This was one of my best days. I had the World Cup series title wrapped up and was the #1 ranked athlete in the world for the 2nd year. No one had ever won the World Championships and the World Cup series at the same time. To be the undisputed world champion with both crowns had only ever been achieved in the women’s. There was talk that the men’s field were just too competitive. I was determined to win this title and somehow pulled it off with a blistering run. It was also the first time in the sport’s history that someone had run sub 30 mins off the bike. Be it by only 12 seconds, I was still super proud to do that, and Hamish Carter and Simon Lessing set such amazing paces it was required to win the event.

Hawaii Ironman World Title - This was the most satisfying win of my career. My entire career I could win races because my physiology allowed me to execute a race at 100 percent. Unfortunately for me, my bigger frame and the hot, humid conditions of Kona do not go hand in hand. I struggled in this humidity my entire career and was pretty much told by the sport scientists, that it would be a difficult race for me to win as I lose too much fluid that I cannot replace it during the race. This event became my pet project and we changed the way I raced to ultimately win the event and prove many people wrong.  I had already been labeled as the greatest triathlete to never win in Kona, but we ended that label in 2007 when I got the title. It was a satisfying day. Very happy.

Quelle Challenge Roth 2006 - I went on a solo assault at the world record in probably the biggest race in Europe outside of Ironman Germany. Roth is the course that the world record is held on, and I really wanted to have a crack at it again. I had already posted 3 sub 8 hour performances on the course in the years prior, and had slipped off world record pace every year in the last 12km of running. Luc Van Lierde held the world record and had run the last 10km in Roth at an amazing 34 minutes to catch Jurgen Zach to win the race and break the world record. I didn’t have the athletes in the field to help me push the pace so spent most of the day on my own pushing myself. Without the humidity of Kona I was able to push the bike really hard, and rode a 4:16 bike ride to set up my assault. I knew it would be tough and ran a 2:45 marathon to just miss Luc’s record by 2 minutes. It was a solid day for me.

Escape from Alcatraz Triathlon 2001 - I had already won this title 3 times on three attempts but the 2001 title was extra special. After only being given an alternate spot on the Australian Olympic Team the year prior, I moved to the USA and decided to make my home in the states. In 2001, the world’s best athletes including all the guys who had medaled at the Sydney Olympics and all the world’s best decided that Escape from Alcatraz would be the race to go to. I was super excited and believed this race was mine. The San Francisco weather is perfect for me and I love the cooler swim. I dominated the race after the swim, quickly catching Craig Walton and blowing the field away to win my 4th title at Escape. I also broke my own course record again which was nice. I think it was the biggest ever winning margin at Escape from Alcatraz at the time. I would go on to win the following year for the last time in my most favorite race in the world.

ITU World Cup Ishigaki Japan 1997 - This race will always be special to me. It was my 2nd ever World Cup victory. I had won a World Cup race the year prior but everyone had thought it was a fluke. It was towards the end of the season and I had just turned pro. The Ishigaki Japan race of 1997 was the first big World Cup of the year. Triathlon was now marching towards the Olympics for the first time and athletes needed to make Olympic points. This is normal now, but this was the first year of it. I had trained my bum off for this event and really had a chip on my shoulder to prove that I was a player amongst the world’s best. At the time they were Greg Welch, Simon Lessing, Hamish Carter, Brad Beven, to name a few. Greg Bennett and myself were the new young guys on the circuit, along with Simon Whitfield, Olivier Marcaeu etc. We dominated this race and blew the old brigade away. I took the title from former World Champion and defending champion Miles Stewart to win my 2nd World Cup title and be ranked the World #1 athlete starting the year. I would hold this position for 26 months. It was my motivation. In my ITU racing days, winning world cup titles was all I wanted to do. I would win 7 in my career, and podium 8 other times. As far as I am concerned the athletes racing this circuit are still the most gifted in our sport. I love ITU racing, it is wonderful.

Back To News Center »